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Source for Lasercutting ABS Plastic?

Hey,

I was surprised to read that we can't Lasercut ABS Plastic here (as i've done it before at NCSU).

I tried to search online for references, and found some interesting results:

(google search for "laser cutter abs plastic cyanide")
http://www.google.com/search?q=laser+cutter+abs+plastic+cyanide

Interestingly the first result is this TechShops' Lasercutter manual.

The rest were either discussing cutting ABS Plastic, or offering to lasercut abs plastic (like Pololu's services).

I'm curious as to the reference, as to why it's banned here. I'm fine doing all my ABS plastic lasercutting elsewhere, just curious.

~Thanks

It's on this page, under

It's on this page, under "cyanide."

http://www.fireengineering.com/index/articles/display/367511/articles/fi...

Other companies have probably decided that their ventilation/insurance/user situation is such that they can deal with the risk.

With many users on the laser, I'd say it's prob a better idea to err on the side of caution rather than risk having someone forget to turn on the fan, cut a lot of ABS, open the lid, and croak.

JC

Laser Cutter Ventilation

The wood shop will have automatic dust collection fans (vacuum) that turns on when the machine is powered up.
We can easily come up with a similar interlocked vent fan for the laser cutter.
The vent fan can be rigged to automatically be powered up when ever the cutter is drawing power.
Perhaps another switch that would keep the fan running (briefly?) when the cutter has switched off.
I can rig this up - I just need to be prodded sufficiently to do it.
I've begun the design of an 'Instructable' auxiliary switched outlet that will do this.

FWIW-- interesting how difficult it is to find scientific...

...data though. I was also interested in this, when I took the SBU. (More curious, since I spent many years working as an environmental chemist). At least the manufacturers admit that cyanide is a decomposition product (MSDS, MSDS).

The question is at what concentration.

I've only found one reference so far concerning the detection of 2 - 5 ppm of cyanide during the purging process for ABS injection molding (at 268°C to 305°C).
Emissions from Processing Thermoplastics

The NIOSH recommended exposure limit (short term) is 4.7 ppm. The OSHA permissible exposure level (applicable to those working at TS over any 8-hr workday, 40-hrs/wk) is 10 ppm.
NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards

I won't draw a conclusion... lasing ABS involves vaporization of the material.

My personal feelings are that adequate ventilation is the key. Having worked with far more hazardous chemicals than cyanide, I wouldn't hesitate to use a tool like this in my place of business with proper ventilation and user training... or unless someone convinced me otherwise. ;)

That being said, it's not my place of business, and TS has every right to limit its liability. :D

BTW, I found it interesting how devoid the Epilog website is of related information. They refer to its ability to cut "plastics"... that's pretty non-specific.

"in my place of business with

"in my place of business with proper ventilation and user training..."

That's the sticking point IMO. We have many users. Can they all be trusted to act appropriately without an automatic fan as described above?

After all, we've had people cutting wood with a new vector grid that is clearly labeled "FOR PLASTICS ONLY." :-(

JC

Amen to that, JC.

I think the automatic fan is a great idea, if TS will agree it's acceptable risk. Additional room ventilation (dedicated/not shared) could also be used for added safety.

BTW... this got me thinking about the 3D printer. Essentially liquefies ABS. Is that vented? (or will it be vented?)

ABS = very useful.

I've been cutting ABS on a different epilogue laser, keeping sure to stay ventilated and use settings that won't smoke, with great results. It a few passes to get through whereas acrylic takes only one (usually). Before I started I searched for the toxicity of ABS with about as much success as everyone else here has had, and was just sure to use the fan. I also kept the lid down for a while longer after cutting to be safe.

ABS is much stronger and suitable for structural applications. This is what I've made with it: http://t413.com/news/thecrossbow

My access to the other laser cutter is very limited, it would be great to be able to cut it at techshop!

The 3D printer is not

The 3D printer is not ventilated. Liquefying (more like softening, iirc) is very different than the high-speed, high-temperature vaporization / decomposition / combustion that occurs with the laser cutter. Merely melting the plastic does not cause significant decomposition, so the nitrile (CN) groups in the ABS stay as part of the polymer. It's when they're incompletely combusted that you get HCN formation. If you read the MSDS, you'll find HCN listed as a combustion product, but not as a hazard when handling molten plastic.

OTOH, some references indicate that high-temperature ABS combustion is comparable to other nitrogen-containing materials, including eg leather, which we allow in the laser cutter.

Has anyone considered cutting

Has anyone considered cutting the ABS on the shopbot? It should be a viable alternative at least for larger less intricate work, and not a safety issue.

Re:

Laser cutting is ideal for quickly making custom parts out of sheets of plastic or wood. All you have to do is draw your design on a computer, and you can have a completely custom part delivered as quickly as the next day! Once you have a design that works, it is easy to make more identical parts, which is especially convenient for designs with many repeated components (such as leg parts on 6-legged walking robots). Plastic Machinery

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