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Woodshop Tools
Wed, 03/18/2009 - 18:55 — FrugalGuy
Planer - I'm thinking a Shop Fox 20". The W1754S is spiral at $2,432 free shipping. W1718 (20" spiral) is $2,130 free shipping. What if we skip the spiral head? A W1683 is $1,450 with shipping. W1754 is $1,836. Would we be just as happy with a 15? A Grizzly or Steelex (shop fox) is as little as $1,000. Speak up!
Drum Sander - We need an open end machine. Performax 16-32 runs near $1000. Anything else we should look at?EDIT: I'm told that the best idea would be to go with a Performax 22-44 open-end, and a 15" spiral cutter planer. You're going to run your board through the sander anyhow, and it can hog off material, too. So, bigger sander.
Router, Plunge - Need one of these for sure. Ebay or craig's list item. Otherwise we can grab a Bosch 1617EVSPK for $210 at Lowes.
Router, Fixed - This could go into the router table that I suggest we build to the right of the table saw table (this way we can share the fence). Another ebay or Harbor Freight item. If we needed a Porter Cable 9690LR, they are $140 at Lowes, but looks like maybe $90 or so on ebay.
Sliding compound miter saw can serve in place of a radial arm saw. 10" with 12" capacity is $200 for a Kobalt from Lowes.
lathe
disk sander, though we can likely build our own.
Added: radial arm saw can not just chop but can also rip while the table saw is in use or set up for something else. That allows 2 people to work at the same time.
Added:mortising machine with at least a 6 inch height capacity. There's a nice floor mount Woodtek with a 10"x7" capacity on sale ($817) about half price at http://www.woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=924-020&search=Ma...
Okay, we have demonstrated that there is indeed interest in a more-comprehensive wood shop.
Now the issue becomes... what tools do we need?
Scott has asked me to put together a list ... and I'm passing the buck on to you!!
So far we have:
- Table Saw - nice Saw Stop cabinet saw: http://www.sawstop.com/cabinet/cab_home.php -- I don't recall how long the fence is.
- Grizzly Band Saw - 14", I think.
- Spindle Sander - looked like a small no-name, which is just fine.
- Rockwell Jointer - older, solid-looking massive machine. Knives will be ordered soon.
- Delta 6" Jointer - cabinet machine donated by a member. Used very little, I understand, and it comes with knives. :-)
- Benchtop drill press, I think. Should serve for now.
Need:
Might want eventually:
I think if we get these basic floor machines in then we can get started making things.
Whatcha think?
FrugalGuy
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- ambermae
woodshop
hey frugalguy don't be quite so eager to lowball the tools- try more for shop quality.. people have homeowner quality tools already and want better at techshop. don't forget lots of bench space, lots of clamps and a mortising machine. and a.......
Get in Touch
Hey, Burton, contact me. I wanna get your ideas today if possible!
FrugalGuy
I'll plug the lathe idea
I'll plug the lathe idea again.
I have a pretty craptastic one from Harbor Freight (14x40", only suitable for basic freehand turning.)
But which one?
I know nothing about lathes. Which one should we buy? Be specific. Which model and where should it be purchased from? What supplies need to go with it?
Shop equipment and shop tools...
I think it is extremely important to building up a community to get the woodshop fully equipped and running ASAP!!!
We definately need a planer, a working jointer, and a router table. The table saw needs to have a good sturdy outfeed table.
I am personally more inclined to work towards getting a good, sturdy radial arm saw set up as well. I have used the Chicago compound miter saw on a job site and the lift arm is prone to being sticky. A well built RAS table can be both safe and versatile, and if you look out on CL you see them for sale everywhere. Call me old school...
Unless things have changed in the past week and knives have been found that old jointer is probably still sitting there, ready to be set up. Have we found knives for it yet? What about the 6" jointer that was to be donated?
I need a lot of these things myself for making soundboards and instrument frames, but I am also interested in seeing traffic increase in the shop as well.
I am willing to come in and assist in building these things, but the tools themselves need to be on-site. I've never built a router table, and am interested in getting that project under way as well.
I'll be there for the Saturday SBU on the table saw and the miter saw...please come and let's get together on this.
Ben Covington
See you Saturday 11 April 1-2 PM
Ben,
I'm signed up for the class, now, thanks. I've got a list of proposed tools I'll put here for what I'm thinking of ordering. Thing is, all this is brand new stuff, and so it is pricey. That's not a problem, but if we have donated or gently-used stuff of as good quality, that saves money for more supplies (sandpaper, knives, clamps, etc.).
Thanks for your commitment to the Techshop. I, too, wanna get started building stuff.
Ron, AKA FrugalGuy
Knives, yes but......
Finding knives for the jointer is easy. I have already located a good source for them. Finding the plates that hold them is another story however. Does anyone know if the plates that hold them in need to be hardened steel or will regular mild steel do the job?
If anyone has a planer and is willing to take the edge of a file to one of the holders.... if it cuts easily, then we can make them easily. If not, they are likely hardened and won't be easy to make.
Also, bringing some in from another machine so I can see them will help by giving me something to copy.
Ron, don't forget we need to get a better compound sliding miter saw or the RAS mentioned above.
Hey, didn't someone say they were going to donate a RAS? I think they did. Hope it shows up.
Scott
Re: Ripping on a Radial Arm saw
Ripping on a Radial Arm Saw is terribly dangerous. Should not even be mentioned.
The plates that hold the jointer/planer blades are not hardened. The little square headed screws push against them to tighten the blade. Just a rectangular strip of steel. Usually two short strips are used per blade on a planer. You will need a height setting gauge to set the height correctly.
Probably found it
I just tonight received a drawing from Delta and can make the parts we need for the Rockwell Jointer. Maybe we'll make a special class for the machine shop..... or maybe I'll just make them. It looks like a slightly challenging part and we need three of them.
Delta has the short bolts that hold everything in place. We need 15 of them and I'll order them tomorrow.
So the Rockwell should be up and running soon. (sorta)
Scott
Delta Parts
Contact Joe at Plaza Machinery. He probably has the parts you need in stock new or used. He is who I go to for all my Delta-Rockwell-Milwaukee parts.
http://plazamachinery.com/
That Chicago miter saw makes
That Chicago miter saw makes me want to cry. I gave up trying to use the wood shop the other night and just went home instead. :(
Would anyone be interested in setting up an ad hoc "Wood Shop Committee" to help Scott plan, rearrange, and support the wood shop? It has SO MUCH potential but is seriously lacking right now.
I'd be happy to participate in such a committee and even run it. I want to make the wood shop something we really want to use rather than just another tool room.
Would that be OK, Scott? I just thought it would be nice to take some of the load off of your shoulders.
Absolutely
Hi John,
Sure, that would be great. Frugalguy was doing this but his day job allasudden swallowed him up. We hope he'll resurface sometime in the future.
In the meantime, I would welcome someone or a group of someones to give me a list of items to finish out the wood shop.
While you're at it you can help us design the layout.
Thanks,
Scott
The Big Shopping List
Scott, Dave, and I had a good talk about the wood shop tonight. I've kinda nominated myself to head up this wood shop since Frugalguy's gotten so swamped with Real Life stuff lately (the nerve!).
If you are interested in discussing all-things-wood-shop, please meet in the Tech Shop Wood Shop at 7:00PM on Tuesday April 21. I'll bring some cigars for after. ;-)
Dave & I are working on a nice useful layout for the wood room and I have a sketch in-hand. In the meantime I've come up with a refreshed list of things we need based on the posts here and talk 'round the shop.
What we HAVE:
*Tablesaw - very good.
*Bandsaw - very good.
*Chop Saw - acceptable for rough work
*Jointer - Please arrange pickup from my house for the Delta for indefinite loan. Knives are on order for other one?
*Router (handheld)
*Oscillating drum sander
*Small disc sander / belt sander combo
*Scroll saw
*Drill Press (steal it from the metal shop... how many do they need, REALLY!)
What we WANT:
*Shaper - Jet 708320 #138-665 (debatable, honestly. Only really useful for doors, raised panels, etc., requires special bits, $1000)
*Planer - Powermatic 15" Spiral Head Model 15s #134-966DV - $2000
*Planer Knives. Powermatic 15S Knives (set) #134-972 - $110
*Router (for table): Porter Cable 892 #962-581
*Dovetailing Jig: Leigh D4R-24 - #876-186 - $500
*Isolock Template for Leigh: Ellipse & Wave Joint Template #921-803 - sale $169
*Porter Cable guide bushing set: #814-232 - $33
*Mortiser - Woodtek Floorstander. #924-020 (and mobile base #928-597) - $1350+180
*Hollow Mortise Chisel Set: #42-317 - $100
*Drum Sander - Performax 22-44. #137-288 - $1300
*80-grit sleeves (3) for Drum Sander #118-259 - $31
*120-grit sleeves (3) for Drum Sander #118-262 - $31
Grand total is $6965.23 plus tax and freight. Get me on the phone with 'em and we can talk 'em down a bit, I'm sure.
I've got the shopping list all prepared and ready to send in. There are some things on here that I'm know I'm unlikely to use (shaper, mortiser) and I'm sure that there are some things that others won't use that I'm likely to use (dovetail jig). Can't please everyone but if we're going to do it, lets do it RIGHT!
Jon
woodshop
sawdust management and a nice lathe- all this is going to create a lot of dust...
DC is already on order. Do
DC is already on order. Do you have a suggestion for a lathe?
woodshop meeting Tuesday
I'll try and get there for Tuesday 21st if I don't end up having to go out of State for a few days.
Cheers,
David
lathe
i haven't shopped for lathes in decades but heavy is good, lots of speed control is good, ability to turn outboard is good and large bowl clearance with say 36" spindle capacity is good. expansion chucks are easy to use for bowl work. i understand some modern rigs use ac/dc for speed control but that sounds expensive...
Just from the lathes I used
Just from the lathes I used at Duke back in the day, I'd say that the DC ones, while really nice, probably aren't necessary. They allow you to turn the speed waaaaaay down for turning very unbalanced objects, but that's probably not that common.
I'd err on the side of a greater swing over the bed and a greater distance between centers rather than the continuously variable speed control. Likewise outboard turning is nice for really big bowls, but if someone really wants to do that, we could always build that in later. LIkewise for specialty chucks and rests; they're not that hard to build considering that we have a full machine shop.
'Course I'm one to talk... I'm using a really awful Harbor Freight lathe. It's one step up from what you'd find some old guy using in a market in Calcutta, probably. It should have a foot treadle.
outboard turning
lower speeds and outboard access are real useful for large diameter work- turned tabletops are amazing... i bid on a patternmaking lathe once that would turn a ten foot diameter outboard if you lifted the grate in the floor...
wow, Burton that's a big 'ol
wow, Burton that's a big 'ol lathe! I'm heading to Woodcraft later this afternoon to buy myself a new tablesaw. I'll check out the lathes while I'm there and report back to the group on Tuesday night.
REMINDER! Your input is
REMINDER! Your input is desperately needed regarding the future of the wood shop at Tech Shop! Tonight is THE night! The employees of Tech Shop have been working really hard to get the place up and running and now we need to weigh in with our opinions on tool layout, tool necessity, etc.
See you TONIGHT! 7:00PM, Tuesday April 21.
Jon
Small thing -- plug cutters
Any chance of getting a set?
I'll add a set of plug
I'll add a set of plug cutters to the shopping list. Do you want tapered or straight?
Update on the Woodshop
Quick Version:
-----
New tools as of 4/26/09
*Delta 6" Jointer (fully operational)
*Delta 13" Planer (fully operational)
*Overhead air filter (fully operational, uses remote control)
*Downdraft table (should be operational by 5/3/09)
-----
Long Version:
Thanks to Fritz's help we were able to get the 6" Delta jointer installed. My Delta's nothing fantastic but it DOES have blades and is fully functional right now. Scott is working on getting the 8" jointer fixed up at which time I'll take the 6" back and sell it, I guess. No sense in having two.
I have also loaned a 13" planer to the shop until our planer arrives.
Scott has our list and is going to be ordering the pieces soon. The next thing to arrive should be a very nice Freud router and a dedicated router table.
Scott has said that us Wood Guys can have one of the drill presses in the metal shop. If anyone thinks about it please get up with Scott and move that in.
I started working on a downdraft table yesterday afternoon. The table is designed to hook up to a 4" dust collection hose. The top will have interchangeable slotted plates so that the entire surface is configurable for optimum suction. The new TS:D employee (Mike or Matt?...) helped me out a TON today in assembling and cutting the pieces today! Thank him when you meet him!
I'm going to keep working on the downdraft table project this week... should have that finished up by Sunday night. The plan is to have it live in the back corner where the electrical hookups and dust collector currently live. The table will be on casters and is going to be the exact same height as the tablesaw when finished. I suppose in a pinch you could use it as an outfeed table...
The new air filtration system has been installed over the tablesaw and it is running 100%. I strongly suggest that you leave this on for the duration of your time in the shop. There is a remote control floating around the wood shop that controls the air filter. Could somebody get a chain or something to mount that sucker to the wall?
Jon
edit: the donated Radial Arm Saw deal fell through. I'm sure we can live without it. :-)
Online I saw a couple
Online I saw a couple inexpensive sets that include both -- probably the way to go.
Uh......
Online inexpensive sets that include both............................ both what?
Scott
I think he means tapered and
I think he means tapered and straight plug cutters.
Heading to Woodworker's Supply in Graham
Woodworker's Supply is having a sale today (Fri), and Saturday (May 1 and 2), so I'm heading up now to have a look around. I plan to take notes and put them here when I get back. I'm hoping Jon and others will see them and if something looks good, it could be bought tomorrow before the sales goes away. We'll see.
I am sorry for dropping the ball on this... and excited that others have picked it up and kept running.
Best,
FrugalGuy
Thanks, FrugalGuy! We're in
Thanks, FrugalGuy! We're in search of a good router table / router combo at a good price. See what you think of the 22-44 drum sanders too. I think that they'll be a fine size for us.
J
Tools Coming in Wednesday or Thursday
We have on the way:
This should be delivered to the shop Wednesday or Thursday.
Sander / Router Table
The only 22-44 open-end drum sander they have now is Jet 22-44 for $1,549. I think we should look around to see if we find a better deal. The Performax 22-44 isn't sold anymore. [EDIT: not by Woodworker's Supply, in any case]
I think we decided to build our own router table.
Yay!
Thanks for getting all those goodies!
That planer sounds like it has some serious horsepower! Woohoo!
After I finish the downdraft table I was planning to start working on the router table. Dave is going to donate his router table which we're going to modify slightly to work with the new Porter Cable router. Fantastic!
edit: I saw that Jet 22-44 sander at WoodCraft on Sunday for about $1450 I think. FYI. Maybe we could talk 'em down a bit too?
box joint jig
check the video at the end.
http://woodgears.ca/box_joint/jig.html
I'm thinking the cnc could produce nice involute spur gears for a smoother mechanism, like he mentions, or maybe even proper bevel gears? or maybe the 3d printer - what's the max size that thing can do?
I know we have the router template coming, but I may try to build one of these simply because it looks like fun.
Wow, that's pretty elaborate!
Wow, that's pretty elaborate! I bet that it's really precise!
In other news, the sanding station is almost finished. I programmed the ShopBot to punch out all 3960 1/4" holes in the melamine tops. If I have time tonight I'm going to be laser engraving some fun images into the tops.
We still need to:
1. Put the casters on
2. Plane down the frame so that it's perfectly level with the tops
3. Paint it (red/blue scheme like TechShop?)
4. Test the vacuum and seal any gaps with silicone
5. Cut four solid tops
I REALLY appreciate all the help from everybody. I love that this was a community project!
Has anyone had a chance to
Has anyone had a chance to use the sanding station yet? I hope it works! I saw that somebody put it on a dolly which is a great start.
I'm planning to make a log cutting sled for the bandsaw sometime soon. Basically very similar to this one: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/2400
Has anyone ever used a sled like this? Got any tips? The last time I sawed a bunch of lumber from logs I did it freehand on my little Craftsman bandsaw. The logs from last night's storm (and today's 4 hours of chainsawing) are far too big. I was hoping to quarter saw this oak and use it as wainscoting in my dining room. :-)
biscuit cutter?
I need to glue up 4/4 hardwood (prob white oak) to make board widths of 14" or so (and quite a few of them). I noticed a biscuit cutter was on the "may have soon" list; is it just a matter of enough people clamoring for it? I know I can just use dowels, and Harbor Freight has doweling jigs for $13, but their biscuit cutter is only $60. It seems to me that a biscuit cutter is a simple enough device that HF can't screw it up too bad (like their angle grinders and corded drills which work great). Feel free to advise me on a different technique to make my butt joints, otherwise I'll put in a vote for a biscuit cutter please!
A friend of mine bought a
A friend of mine bought a router (plunger style) and table combo from home depot recently so it can be used either way can't remember the brand name though. That could knock off 2 tools in you list with 1 purchace instead of 2. It came with a bunch of different bits too.
Already have routers and router table
Thanks, Skip.
We actually already have plunge routers available and a very nice Bosch router mounted in the router table. We should have most of the basic bits one would need, too. Let's see, there are also template guide bushings and all that here, too.
Speaking of routers and accessories, we've also got a very nice dovetailing jig that's not even out of the box, yet.